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DigginOut
01-25-2006, 06:57 AM
I'm so glad I found this board - it really helps to know that we're not alone and that there are things we can do to help ourselves! Here goes (skip to bold for bottom line):

My husband and I are trying to decide if and how to go the debt settlement route and need advice about our specific situation. We've accumulated huge credit card debt (not to mention additional consumer debt concealed by mortgage refinances and $80K in home equity revolving credit...). Six months ago, our credit ratings were hovering around 700 but are probably lower now due to more late payments (nothing beyond 60 days late yet). We've had some extenuating circumstances: two spells of unemployment, unexpectedly having twins (for 3 kids total), associated high child care expenses, and health problems. Now we're trying to dust ourselves off and develop a strategy for attacking our debt and reducing our living expenses.

I don't think BK13 is an option b/c (a) We've been paying a nanny under the table so exposing ourselves to financial scrutiny by the federal government would be asking for trouble; and (b) We can probably replicate the BK13 repayment plan in other ways w/o as much credit damage, e.g., debt settlement.

We have 401-K savings and are poised to borrow (& partially liquidate? - ouch!) in order to pay off much of our debt (and bridge us until our child care expenses subside - we're hoping to switch from a nanny to day care this summer). BTW, a 401-K loan would be a wash on our monthly expenses for now but would convert open-ended high-interest debt into contained (5 yrs), lower-interest debt (i.e., do-it-yourself debt consolidation).

DS sounds like the best option. However, from what I've been reading on this site/board and the books, I have some concerns and questions.

Our specific CC debts are:

Citi Visa - $27K @ 29.9%
Credit Union MC - $20K @ 14%
Credit Union credit line - $5K @ 14%
Chase Visa - $5K @ 3.5% (going up soon)

Concerns and Q's:

* What are our prospects of getting a decent settlement from Citi? On the one hand, I've heard that they won't settle for less than 80%, but then I've also heard contradictory accounts of them settling for less (but only if you use a professional DS service?). BTW, one of our smaller 401-K accounts is managed by Citi, which the CC dept might know about. In addition, my husband took a call from them yesterday and told them that we're working on paying off some or all of the account (he was vague so I'm not sure if this hurt our bargaining position).

* Even if we settle, can't they still sue us? We're not in one of the states that enforces protections against this.

* Two of the other debts are w/credit unions. Does this impact DS prospects? (My husband has been w/this credit union for 15+ years, and we don't relish the thought of trashing that relationship but is there any alternative?)

* The last card is w/our regular bank, Chase, so they would know that (a) our checking account is perpetually overdrawn and (b) we make decent salaries, which are deposited directly. Can we just settle the other 3 w/o settling or closing out Chase (perhaps simply paying it off in full but leaving it open)?

* Can we just start w/Citi or do we have to do all simultaneously?

* Should we hold off on the 401-K loan until (all?) settlements are negotiated? If not, should we park it in a savings account w/another bank?

* If we go the DS route, should we hire someone to help us? I know that the general advice on this board is to do it yourself but that would be difficult b/c: (a) both of us work in cubicles and have no privacy at work; (b) given our work/family demands, it's probably not realistic, esp. b/c I have a medical condition that saps my energy.

Depending on the answers to the above, I have a lot more Qs (How bad/lasting will the damage to our credit be? Do we stop paying our CC bills? How much do we stand to gain/pay for professional DS help? etc.)

Thanks for reading this long post, and for any info / insight / advice!

divemedic
01-25-2006, 08:02 AM
Settlement usually doesn't happen until you are at least 90 days past due. Do not borrow from your retirement to pay bills. In the event you DO have to go the BK route, the retirement funds are exempt. Keep them.

Recovering Attorney
01-25-2006, 08:49 AM
The LAST thing you should do with retirement funds is use them to pay off a debt.

Do yourself a favor and at least talk to a BK lawyer to see how you might fare under a Chap 13 plan. Believe me, your child care expenses will NOT ever go down lol

Talk to your tax professional. If you do switch to daycare, how much will you save in taxes with the expense credits?

I'd deal with the Credit unions first. I assume you have the mortgage and HELOC with them too? See if you can consolidate your unsecured debt with them and get a 0% rate for 12 months, pledging to use the payments you make now to reduce the principal. Offer to set up a prepay 9 if you don't do that now).

Chase and Citi may offer you a hardship program, but don't hold your breath. They will give you a lower interest rate and reduced payment for a limited time, and promise to reage your account to show a current status.

As has been said, you won't be able to negotiate a payoff until you are severely passed due. Most DS companies will tell you to stop paying your bills.

Obviously, you need your house. And you need increased cash flow to take care of your kids. So BK seems an avenue to go down.

Check out www.cheapskatemonthly.com Mary HUnt has great insight on living with less and handling your debt. I have found her advice useful

DigginOut
01-25-2006, 10:25 AM
Thanks for the responses. I will talk to a BK lawyer or two but I'm still not clear about which is the lesser of two evils: BK or partial reduction of 401-K, even if it is protected under BK.

In fact, this very website suggests using 401-K $ as an (preferable) alternative to BK. Plus, reducing the debt amount in exchange for lump-sum settlement offsets the 401-K hit. In any case, I've crunched the numbers and borrowing from the 401-K is a no-brainer (though it doesn't address the cash flow problem).

Also, isn't paying the nanny under the table pretty much a BK show stopper?

Neither the mortgage nor the HELOC are w/the credit union. Mortgage is w/WAMU and HELOC is w/Chase. What's a "prepay 9"?

At a minimum, I suppose I can try to negotiate a hardship program w/Citi but I don't want to approach them until I've got my strategy hammered out.

Re: child care, we're already maxing out the tax benefit through an FSA used for other expenses (e.g., summer camp and an after school program for our oldest).

Thanks for the tip on the Cheapskate website. I've printed off a sample newsletter and will read tonight.

Recovering Attorney
01-25-2006, 10:33 AM
stop paying the nanny under the table. It may help to show the expense. You need to work on cashflow.

Gettinout
01-27-2006, 10:43 PM
Your 401-k is off limits to creditors. Only the Feds can tap those funds.

You'll have to read the fine print regarding borrowing the 401-k funds. I believe the rules may vary according to employer preference. In my case I can only borrow 50% of my contributions and not any of my employers contributions. If I break employment I have to repay the loan immediately, and taxes are due.

Ask around to find out who the best BK Attorneys are in your area. Try asking CPAs and other Attorneys. Consult with three BK Attorneys and you'll likely get three different approaches.

Dont jump into anything til you've got a good feel for all the options. Dont assume that the cashflow problem will go away soon. Without improved cashflow the 401-k isn't a "no brainer" in my opinion.

I'm celebrating 8 years of surving twins this week. Coincidentaly, my daughters are also having a birthday party. Have you considered the finacial impact if one of you stays at home instead of paying for a Nanny or childcare? It might also help you qualify for BK. (Consult an Attorney) There was a book written a few years back that crunched the numbers and proved in many cases it actually cost more to be a dual income family. This might be the "out of the box" thinking you'll need to address your concerns.

You've got your hands full with the kids and finances. I wish you well.

Gettinout