Hospitals hope credit card plans ease bad debt

[LadynRed]

Just what we need... more ways to screw people who already have problems with debt and especially medical bills !!

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=reutersEdge&storyID=2007-01-08T223619Z_01_N02338085_RTRUKOC_0_US-HOSPITALS-CREDIT.xml&pageNumber=0&imageid=&cap=&sz=13&WTModLoc=NewsArt-C1-ArticlePage2

[LNY]

God forbid they should "ease" it by not charging people hundreds of times the actual cost of their care. They're like loan sharks. They gouge people, and then come after them with a vengeance for the falsely inflated debt.

Universal healthcare is the only way out.

[IHateCAs]

Universal healthcare is the only way out.
Yeah, like that won't be expensive or anything.

[LNY]

Yeah, like that won't be expensive or anything.

Whatever. :roll:

I lived with it for 8 years in England. Worked just fine.

[Don't make me go there!]

I knew a guy who drove log truck, so you know he wasn't making bunches of money! His first wife battled cancer for years and he was left with a mountain of bills. In this case, he filed Chapter 7 just on the medical bills and got out from under that load.

Instead of adding to the debt as the article indicated (using credit cards would do exactly that) filling bankruptcy just on the medical bills would ease a whole lot of pain. Or just hang tough until the SOL expires. The cost of medical care now is totally out of hand!!

[flacorps]

The French seem to have a workable healthcare system (#1 standard of care, way down around #37 on per capita cost).

There is a baseline of care provided by the government. Then if you want something better, you join a mutuelle ... something like a hybrid PPO/HMO.

I wouldn't call it perfect, but it beats heck out of what we've got.

[LNY]

The French seem to have a workable healthcare system (#1 standard of care, way down around #37 on per capita cost).

There is a baseline of care provided by the government. Then if you want something better, you join a mutuelle ... something like a hybrid PPO/HMO.

I wouldn't call it perfect, but it beats heck out of what we've got.

Same in England. Everyone receives free healthcare, and it's considered a basic human right... not tied to your job. If you lose or change your job, you are not punished by having your medical care downgraded, at even higher cost, or gone entirely. You are still treated should you become sick or injured, regardless of your employment situation, because they don't think employment and good health are synonymous, like "you can't have one without the other." And yes, you also have the option of private health insurance (like the crap we get with our jobs here).

[momof5]

First off, if you apply for a mortgage, the presence of a medical collection is not as serious as a credit card default. (And it would only be 1 tradeline.) Make it a CC and you get 2 derrogs. Now add to that the AUTOmatic deduction from your paycheck if you default then eliminates 2 things.... the ability to dispute charges on the hospital bill AND no legal recourse before your paycheck is "garnished". Not just NO but HELL no!

Canada and Australia also have universal health....and 50% taxes.....and rationed care.

But, everyone needs to contact your senators and congressmen now and STOP Ted Kennedy! His version of Universal Health is MA's....FORCE the consumer to purchase it....just like car insurance. (This is already in force in MA). He was on the news today promoting this as the national solution!

[LadynRed]

I'd just like to clarify something here regarding bankruptcy. You can NOT pick and choose what debts you include in a bankruptcy, you must include ALL debts. There is no such thing as a 'medical bankruptcy'.

The MA plan has to be a nightmare, considering the huge cost of buying medical insurance for individuals. What happens to people who just don't make enough to buy this forced insurance ? Do they live on the streets or in the slums.. but they have health insurance ? Do they give up cars or eating ?? I'd like to know just where Mr. Kennedy thinks the money would come from for forced health insurance ?? It's totally absurd !!! Guess I won't ever be moving back to MA.

[LNY]

I'd just like to clarify something here regarding bankruptcy. You can NOT pick and choose what debts you include in a bankruptcy, you must include ALL debts. There is no such thing as a 'medical bankruptcy'.

The MA plan has to be a nightmare, considering the huge cost of buying medical insurance for individuals. What happens to people who just don't make enough to buy this forced insurance ? Do they live on the streets or in the slums.. but they have health insurance ? Do they give up cars or eating ?? I'd like to know just where Mr. Kennedy thinks the money would come from for forced health insurance ?? It's totally absurd !!! Guess I won't ever be moving back to MA.

It's not "forced health insurance." It's an expansion of Medicare, to cover people of all ages. You can choose not to enroll; if you do enroll, it's a payroll deduction of 1.7%. You will also now have the right to enroll in health plans formerly only available to federal employees and members of Congress.

[LadynRed]

If it's mandated by law that you have health insurance, then how can you 'not enroll' ??

[momof5]

That was my point Lady. According to what I read about Kennedy's statements regarding health insurance in MA, it is 'required just like car insurance'.

I guess my problem stems from personal cost of medical insurance. I am a contract programmer. My employer provides medical insurance for purchase. There are only 100+ employees in the company, so our medical insurance was so expensive last year that I did not buy it. With encouragement from me (with personnel), the company got a better plan and then upped their contribution to 85%. I was tickled! I could afford that! (~$300 per month for medical and dental for me and the kiddos).

What incentive would they have had to get us a better deal if I had been forced to buy it last year? I make too much for a subsidized plan that congress would create for the lower income bracket, but the higher cost would have hit me in the housing budget. Either I could afford where I live or I could afford that insurance.

I don't have the answer. CC's for medical coverage could really bite the consumer. Universal, but forced, insurance would have it's repercussions. Government provided health care would tax everyone, but the end effects are unknown. BTW, while 'uninsured' we had no medical bills to pay. :mrgreen: Blessed, I guess. I can relax now knowing that a medical crisis won't destroy my life!

[Methuss]

If it's mandated by law that you have health insurance, then how can you 'not enroll' ??

If it is pulled from your paycheck at 1.7% then it's just another State tax. The State is just waiving collecting it if you have your own plan or an employer sponsored plan.

[piionline]

I work in a hospital. Trust me its not the Doc's, Hospitals, or the employee's of the hospital making money. Don't believe me, goto finance.yahoo.com and check out their hospitals, check out Hospital Corp. of America. They are the most profitalble hospital chain out there, and they make a whopping 5-7% profit per year.

Yes their costs are crazy high, but think about how many people you touch on a visit to the hospital. you touch admitting, you pass by the people who are cleaning, you recieve food, you have a nurse tech, a nurse, a doctor, a unit clerk, a person clean all the equipment before it comes to your room, a person cleaning your room while your there, and after you leave.

If you goto outpaitent surgery you have a director, supervisor, coordinator, sterilization products and employee's, supply clerks, people getting everything you need pulled so you spend the least amount of time in the room as possible, multiple scrub techs, nurses, doctors, sometimes PA's or NP's, probably around 1/2 million just in equipment in the room your in ( just the lights are around 30grand), ansethesia, recovery room nurses, nurses ensuring that you good to go for surgery.

Nurses make on average $18-40 per hour depending on their education and skill levels.
My hospital alone pays almost a million per year just on their equipment maintaince contracts for the medical equipment in the hospital. they spend around 3-4 million more per year on new equipment to raise care levels and make higher patient quality.

Oh, the $10 tylenol is 10bucks cause a doc. has to prescribe it (otherwise lawsuit), a machine has to vend it (my hospital pays 10k per month just for these machines), nurse has to give it to you and they have to chart it (the charting system probably cost $500,000).

Hospitals have to pay to recuite docs to come to your area, so you can get better care, and they have to balance this so they still make money. If you can't give someone a 6% profit margin that could be wiped out by one bad mistake or lawsuit, we will stop becoming a free country.

I know of multiple hospitals last year that closed their labor and delivery halls becuase the doctors couldn't afford the insurance that go along with that. Could you imagine living 15 miles from a hospital all your life and not being able to take your wife there when your son is being born? Imagine that 45 minute or more drive to the next hospital cause your neighbor sued a good doc that made one minor mistake in 20 years, and everything was fine with thier kid.

The reason why their prices are so high is that self paying people have a huge default rate. Insurance companies pay, therefore they give them discounts. But hospitals still give people care when they need it. What person out there that has huge hospital bills never recieved care? They did recieve it or they wouldnt have the huge bills. Anyone can now go and join these discount plans that use a specific insurance companies discounted rates already negotiated with hospitals. These plans are all over the net and cost about 10 bucks a month. Not health insurance, but its a huge cost reduction if you don't have insurance.

I didn't even touch the surface of this, but I agree we need a form of nationalized insurance or healthcare, just so its not like the military system of healthcare, that is just horrible. If hospitals could get more of their bills paid they would be able to aquire more of the best technology to save lives.

[Methuss]

Could you imagine living 15 miles from a hospital all your life and not being able to take your wife there when your son is being born?

I see this now because the hospital 1 mile from my house refuses to accept the insurance my employer changed us over to (United Health Care)...won't even take it as an out of network provider.... due to a billing dispute with UHC. I now have to drive one city east or two north to get to an in-network hospital for my insurance.


The reason why their prices are so high is that self paying people have a huge default rate.

Hospitals that at least got a SSN from the patient can file for medicare/medicaid. They also get federal funding to cover some of the defaults and huge tax write-offs for the defaults too.

Making 6% with that kind of default rate equates to a near 25% profit margin if there were no defaults.

And lastly, there wouldn't be a need for such high malpractice insurance if doctors did their jobs right. Just Wednesday night I had to take my wife to the hospital for a pinched nerve in her neck that had her at a 10 on the pain-scale. The doctor was a total A-hole and rough handled her making her scream in pain! The nurse that gave her shots for the pain tossed the syringes at her backside like she was playing darts! This is not the way to avoid high insurance premiums. The nicest people we dealt with all night long was the volunteer that wheeled my wife in to the ER from the curbside dropoff (I had to look after the baby and park the car) and the billing person.

Doctors and other medical practitioners have to care. If they don't care then they should not be in the field. I don't care if they worked a 12 hour shift, they MUST treat each patient like they are beloved family or they are not doing their job.

[direred]

In my area, starting wages for nurses is $40/hr, and they're limited to 5 patients (fewer in ICU).

[hinky]

God forbid they should "ease" it by not charging people hundreds of times the actual cost of their care. They're like loan sharks. They gouge people, and then come after them with a vengeance for the falsely inflated debt.

Universal healthcare is the only way out.

Amen. I never thought I'd say this, but Go Arnold (he's proposing a universal plan for California). It's a start.