Please help - Atty Lawrence Hecker panicked me

[confuzed]

Hi - thanks in advance for any help you can give me. I am reading the information and posts onsite, but I'm not thinking clearly and the acronyms are confusing.

"Attorney Lawrence Hecker" called me and I returned the call. They say I owe over 8,000 on a credit card account. I did have a Citibank account, I closed it (and all cards) about 14 years ago and thought I paid them all off. I don't even know if the account number they gave is correct.

They said they were starting legal action the next day if I didn't pay, they would send people to my house, garnish my wages and I would lose my job. They had my sister's name too (she has nothing to do with me financially!)

Then they said I could pay only 6,000, but then he put me on hold and came back and said no, he'd gotten in trouble for making that offer, I REALLY owed over 12,000 but they'd let me pay the 8400 in two installments if I gave them a postdated check number NOW.

I was in tears, saying how could I owe that, I don't know anything about it, and he kept threatening to hang up and start the legal proceedings....well, I gave him a check number, I was so panicked. Dumb me.

A day or two later I came out of the fog and thought, "I've just given access to my bank account to someone I don't know for a debt I don't have any reason to believe I owe." I'm just a mess. I called Consumer Credit Counseling and they said to pull my credit records and I did that and guess what - there is no Citibank or Hecker or any debt like that, just some small medical bills which I knew about and am dealing with. (I have Equifax, Experian and TransUnion reports.)

CCC said to stop the check so I did, now what do I do? Do I send one of these sample letters requesting verification on the debt? CCC said if the last activity or payment on the debt was more than four years ago, they can't collect it anyway. How do I find out when that last date was, IF the debt is real at all? Why isn't it on my credit report if I owe all this money? (The Hecker guy said the original debt was 3,000 and the rest is all fees and so on.)

I'm just freaking. I don't know what they will do when the check doesn't go through, and I don't want to lose my job. Can Hecker even do these things to someone in California when he's in New Jersey? I know he can't threaten things he has no intent or ability to do - but I don't know how to tell what he can or can't do!

Can anyone help me figure out what to do next?

[willingtocope]

I think you've been scammed.

At the very least, if this is a legitimate collection agency that called you, they committed enough violations of the FDCPA to wind up paying you $8000.

The thing is, you not only gave them a check number, you gave them your bank account number.

I'd suggest you close that account, and open a new one. If you want to use the same bank, tell them you had a check stolen (which you did) and want to make sure the theif doesn't raid your account.

Then...if you hear from these people again...use the DV process. DO NOT talk to them on the phone. They're trained to panic people into doing things they shouldn't.

[confuzed]

I think they are a "legitimate" agency because I see other people on the board have heard from them, and I googled them and saw that they have had lawsuits filed against them for unfair collection practices.

Do you think I should just wait to hear from them again, after stopping the check? Or should I request the information from them now? I have an address they gave me.

I'm scared that the next thing that will happen is garnishment, as they said.

I hate to close the account, it's been open since 1979 and has all my automatic payments coming out, but I can do it.

Can they put this on my credit report NOW? If it isn't on there already?

[willingtocope]

They can't garnish your wages without a court judgement...which they can't get until you're actually summoned to appear in court.

The problem is, these people are really low-life CAs...as evidenced by the suits against them. If they have your account information, they may try to do an electronic check against it. If you have someone at the bank you can trust, and want to talk this over with them, go ahead. You need to make sure that all avenues for them getting at the account are plugged.

If this pops up your CRs now, and you haven't had the account for 14 years, then they will have violated several laws. Doesn't mean they won't do it, just that you'll have reason to sue them.

(Actually, I'm thinking that if they didn't immediately go into your account for funds to cover the check you gave them (...you did say you had second thoughts days later...), it could be that they figured out they had the wrong person. Again, doesn't mean they won't try to take your money...just that you might not hear from them again).

[confuzed]

I forgot to say thank you for answering me. ;) I'm really not thinking clearly about all this.

I'm going down to the bank and talk to them about it this morning. Maybe there's some way to protect the account, I don't know. Or some way to close it but not mess up all the auto stuff (don't want anything legitimate to bounce.)

The "check" was postdated until the 30th which is Monday and I stopped it by phone yesterday, but there's nothing to stop them giving another check number, I guess.

[IHateCAs]

Nice used car salesman tactics there.

We can offer you $6000. Wait let me check with my manager. No I can't go that low, sorry.

[IHateCAs]

In all honesty, I'd close my bank acct and open a new one.

[divemedic]

Close it, open a new one, and if they attempt to charge you for anything, file an ID theft report.

The hassle of restarting your auto payments is nothing compared to the hassle of them taking $5,000 of your money.

[confuzed]

Okay. I opened a new account and moved all my money. I left the old account with a little money in case anything automatic comes through before I can get it all changed over.

B of A said that if they try to use anything other than the check number I gave them (which is now stopped) that it constitutes fraud. I am going to watch the account daily. They can't get the money anyway, because it isn't there.

B of A also suggested that I call Citibank itself to see if they say that I owe them anything, and if so how much. Is that wise?

I'm sort of nervous to do anything at all now, but I sure don't want a subpoena.

[bigjohnstud4200]

You're in California. You are no longer legally liable for anything that old. The statute of limitations has passed. If they take you to court, your affirmative defense is "time-barred" and will be thrown out! If it were me, I would send them a letter, CMRRR, and tell them that you have revoked authorization to draw any amount from your account and if they attempt to you will sue them for violations of the FDCPA. Good thing you found this site, they almost had you!

[mdk003]

Personally, I think you have enough there to sue them. Each of the following is a clear violation:

- Threats of legal action which they did not take.
- Threatening to "send people to your house". That's pretty close to telephone harassment right there.
- Pretending to be a lawyer. I don't believe for a second that "Atty Hecker" has passed the bar.
- Threatening to garnish wages. Not possible if they don't have a judgment.
- Threatening to make you lose your job. Not within their power.

If they don't send the proper notification within 5 days, that's another violation.

Plus, I keep hearing that it's illegal in California to even try to collect time-barred debt. Anyone know the actual law on that?

First: Send them a cease and desist letter. This debt is far beyond the SOL.
Second: File a formal complaint with your state Attorney General's office.
Third: Think about suing them. You can find a consumer advocate lawyer through naca.net, who could discuss the specifics of your case. I think most will grant an initial meeting for free.

Oh, and I would file a formal complaint with the California bar association as well. Either "Atty Hecker" is a very bad attorney with no understanding of the FDCPA, or they are lying and representing themselves as lawyers. Either way, I think the bar would love to hear all about it.

[confuzed]

He said that I paid something on it in I thought he said 2000, but maybe he said 2003; I tried to write everything down that he said, but I don't have that. He said the statute of limitations had ALMOST run out but not quite, which was why they were going to sue me starting the next day. He said Citibank didn't WANT me to pay, they just wanted to sue me.

I know, writing all this down, it seems really stupid, but it was terrifying at the time.

I don't have any recollection or records of having paid anything to anyone.

How do I find out the last activity?

[bigjohnstud4200]

The OP has a case but no proof. CA is NOT one of the states that you can't attempt to collect on sue to SOL. Only WI and Missississippi.

Did you make a payment in 2000 or 2003? I'm not sure if a payment resets the SOL on collecting in CA, but I have a feeling it does not. Also, make them proof you made a payment either way.

[mdk003]

bigjohnstud: Ah, thanks for clearing that up. For some reason, I thought I heard someone include CA in that list.

confuzed: Do you still have the original message from "Atty Hecker"? If so, take that to the lawyer. I bet there's enough violations in their message alone to go after them.

You probably should record all calls with them in the future, providing whatever notification is required by California. I think you'll quickly get them on other violations, judging from their conduct.

[confuzed]

I wish I knew; I don't. I don't have records going back that far. The best I can say is that I don't remember paying anything on any account. I haven't had any credit cards for fourteen years. I just get offers, which I toss unopened.

I did look up an attorney on naca.net, there is one local to me. Thanks!

Would talking to Citibank and asking questions cause me any grief or rset any kind of clock?

I didn't record the conversation; sigh. I didn't even know what it was about when I returned the call. So I have only my own notes and I didn't write down everything he said about people coming to my house, losing my job, and so on.

I have a feeling he may have been very careful anyway...he said things like, "we'll garnish your wages and I know of schoolteachers who have been fired for that." Which is probably not the same as saying, "YOU will get fired."

[CarolinaBlueEyes]

this situation is the reason why you NEVER EVER talk to a CA by phone..its out of SOL.. the guy was looking for commission and it doesnt matter if they use the check number.. they can CREATE any amount they want.. not to mention by paying it you could in many states resest your SOL again...


YOU can not lose your job.. they can not garnish until it goes to court which is unlikley on a debt that old.. if they are that stupid you have an affirmative defense its out of SOL

these people make their money by scare tactics and intimidation.. stay off the phone with them..

[confuzed]

Okay...I think I will send this letter today by certified mail, revoking permission and requesting validation. DOes this look all right? I wrote some of it and took other parts from a form on this site.

To Whom It May Concern,

I have revoked any (real or implied) permission to withdraw any amount from my account, as any permission was obtained using coercion and threats which may violate the The Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.

Any attempt to withdraw money from my account will be an actionable violation of The Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.

Be advised that this is not a refusal to pay, but a notice sent pursuant to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, 15 USC 1692g Sec. 809 (b) that your claim is disputed and validation is requested.

This is NOT a request for “verification” or proof of my mailing address, but a request for VALIDATION made pursuant to the above named Title and Section. I respectfully request that your offices provide me with competent evidence that I have any legal obligation to pay you.

Please provide me with the following:


What the money you say I owe is for;
Explain and show me how you calculated what you say I owe;
Provide me with copies of any papers that show I agreed to pay what you say I owe;
Provide a verification or copy of any judgment if applicable;
Identify the original creditor;
Prove the Statute of Limitations has not expired on this account
Show me that you are licensed to collect in my state
Provide me with your license numbers and Registered Agent

If your offices are able to provide the proper documentation as requested in the following Declaration, I will require at least 30 days to investigate this information and during such time all collection activity must cease and desist.

If your offices fail to respond to this validation request within 30 days from the date of your receipt, all references to this account must be deleted and completely removed from my credit file and a copy of such deletion request shall be sent to me immediately.

I would also like to request, in writing, that no telephone contact be made by your offices to my home or to my place of employment. If your offices attempt telephone communication with me, including but not limited to computer generated calls and calls or correspondence sent to or with any third parties, it will be considered harassment and I will have no choice but to file suit. All future communications with me MUST be done in writing and sent to the address noted in this letter by USPS.

It would be advisable that you assure that your records are in order before I am forced to take legal action. This is an attempt to correct your records, any information obtained shall be used for that purpose.

Best Regards,

[confuzed]

Oh, and the last item requested doesn't seem to make sense, it seems cut off, but that's how it was on the form:

Provide me with your license numbers and Registered Agent

[confuzed]

Oh, good (%#@)&%)@!. Is this where I can start swearing?? I can't even get an address on this sleazeball to send my letter to. He's listed all over the place with various spellings. Even the BBB lists him about four times with various addresses. I can't verify the one I wrote down from the phone call - I google it and there's no match.

When I google stuff, I just find boards and references to what sleazeballs these people are, how they try to collect out-of-date debts, how they use mail drops, so on and so forth. Maybe they buy these "debts" for a penny on the dollar or something???

How do I get an address for this guy, or do I trust that I wrote one down correctly even though I can't google it? (Yes I read the sticky and had no luck with it!)

[bigjohnstud4200]

Oh, good (%#@)&%)@!. Is this where I can start swearing?? I can't even get an address on this sleazeball to send my letter to. He's listed all over the place with various spellings. Even the BBB lists him about four times with various addresses. I can't verify the one I wrote down from the phone call - I google it and there's no match.

When I google stuff, I just find boards and references to what sleazeballs these people are, how they try to collect out-of-date debts, how they use mail drops, so on and so forth. Maybe they buy these "debts" for a penny on the dollar or something???

How do I get an address for this guy, or do I trust that I wrote one down correctly even though I can't google it? (Yes I read the sticky and had no luck with it!)

We usually don't use the "form letters" but it will suffice. As far as finding these people, try http://whocalled.us

http://www.dnb.com, which is basically the credit reporting agency for businesses, list them at: 109 Division St, Toms River, NJ

Also I would suggest making a complaint at the BBB right now too.

[razr]

...they would send people to my house...

Go ahead. Make my day.

-r

[confuzed]

I readied four copies for the four addresses that I have, and am off to send them. The Toms River is one of the ones I am sending to. I will also do the BBB stuff after (four of their listings have no complaints, but one has 25 complaints; they all appear to be the same guy.)

Thank you, all of you, for helping me.

Edited later to add:

The following addresses were received and signed for (this is for anyone looking for good addresses for these guys later)

Attorney Lawrence Hecker
2C South Gold Drive
Hamilton New Jersey 08691

Laurence Hecker
109 Division St.
Toms Rivr, NJ 08753

[virtualrn]

It probably would be wise to file a police report as well. Sounds like fraud and obtaining personal banking info under threats and duress-another piece of documentation if you pursue this.

[confuzed]

I filed a complaint with the BBB. I will look into a police report too. Since they are a collection agency (a really scuzzy one, apparently) I don't know if the police would really care?

I'm still unsure of whether to phone Citibank and try to verify the account number and if there really was any balance on it all those years ago.

Question: what does it mean if this "debt" is not listed on the three credit reports at all? Does that prove it doesn't exist, or would I have to verify through Citibank?

[willingtocope]

The fact that the account is not on your credit reports does not prove anything. If it really was your account, and it went delinquent more than 7-1/2 years ago, it would have been removed...but, you would still owe it, and they could still try to collect.

If you have a complete account number, I'd suggest you call Citibank just to see what they say. Don't admit anything, and don't agree to anything. But, at least you should be able to find out if its legitimate and in your name.

[confuzed]

I phoned Citibank and they said because the account was so old they have to request the information and will send it to me in writing in about ten days.

I guess if I had any balance at all it would be over the four years California SOL so I don't think they can get it (I am less worried about whatever I might have truly owed, if anything, then about all these thousands of dollars in fees and charges and interest and whatever else they have tacked onto it - 8,000! I never ran up balances like that when I DID have credit cards!)

[confuzed]

Also filed a complaint with the FTC.

[bigjohnstud4200]

If you haven't sent your letters yet, you should send a copy of the complaints with the letter.

[confuzed]

Nope, oops, I already sent them by certified mail with return receipt requested; I sent four of the suckers, to all the addresses I could find. I wanted to get them off because they're going to try to put the check through Monday and find out they can't and I don't think they will be at all happy. ;)

I am considering whether I ought to contact the lawyer in my town from the naca site. I don't know if they will actually file suit and until I get the information from Citibank in ten days, I have no idea if they have any grounds to do so. (If there was any original debt, if it's out of SOL, and so on.) I may call to see if he does any free consultation.

If they file suit, would it have to be in California where I am and have always been or could they file in the state where they are or where Citibank's main office is? (I don't know what state Citibank is in.)

I see some people have filed complaints with the Atty General. Is that worth doing? Would I complain to the AG of California or New Jersey? I found the complaint forms, but I have no supporting documentation to send, and don't kow if it's worthwhile.

[willingtocope]

It sure wouldn't hurt to talk everything over with an NACA lawyer. Give 'em a call.

As for doing anything else at this point, I'd suggest you wait until you get your reply from Citi. You do need to know what they think they've got...

[confuzed]

You know - trying to make some sense out of this - the last piece of junk I got from Citibank (I usually toss all junk mail & offers unopened, so I can't be sure I didn't miss some stuff over the years) was an offer for a pre-approved credit card, blah blah.... (I get this garbage from several companies.)

Seems odd that they'd be one of the companies offering me a credit card if I actually was on record as owing them all this money, even if they did sell off the debt!

[willingtocope]

Hard to tell. One of the pre-approved offers that OC's have been sending out have "...and pay off your existing debt with us..." in the fine print. It could have been a back handed collection attempt.

[confuzed]

Oh. Dang. Wish I'd read the whole thing, then. If they think I owe them money I'd like to know about it, and I'd sure rather deal with Citibank (I've got no quarrel with them) than these CA people. But whatever it was just looked like all the other trash offers.

[confuzed]

From what I read here, even if I made some sort of payment on some account in 2000 or 2003 (Hecker's people say I did although I don't remember it at all), it wouldn't reset the clock on the account, and if it is my account and it went overdue, it would've been wayyyy more than twelve years ago.

I keep reading that being outside SOL is an "affirmative defense." But if they sue me, before I get that far, do I have to give them all my financial information, account numbers, tax records, employment information, and so on? I don't want to have to give these people anything more than I already stupidly gave them. Does all this come up if you get sued?

[IHateCAs]

You don't have to give them any of that stuff unless ordered by the court.

I again reiterate for you to close the account you gave them. In fact, I'd probably close any accounts I had with that bank if possible. This is a very bottom feeder, fly by night organization. I would not put it past them to get a sewer service judgment against you and then order the bank to freeze your accounts. Even if they didn't know the new account you had with that bank, they'd know you banked there.

In addition, you gave them your routing info over the phone. They can probably take money out of your account without your permission.

Sure it's illegal. Sure you can sue them over it. That doesn't mean you want to put up with the hassle of getting your money back, if you can even get it back from an organization like that.

[confuzed]

I did plan to close the old acct (the one they have the routing #'s for) within the next day or so.

I do bank with another bank too, and they didn't ask and I didn't tell them; would they have access to that information?

I tried to look up what a "sewer service judgment" is but had no luck. Can they get some sort of judgment against me without my knowing about it?

This is just rhetoric, no answer needed, but how can these things be allowed to happen???

[willingtocope]

"Sewer service judgement" is when they file a case in court, send out their own summon's server who throws the summons in the sewer in front of your house, and they get a default judgement because you don't show up for the trial.

They get away with this stuff because most of the people they hassle don't know their rights. This is all CIVIL court stuff. Civil suits are decided by the preponderance of evidence...not "beyond a reasonable doubt". As a debtor, you're pretty much guilty unless you show up and prove otherwise.

Your account at the other bank...as long as you don't have a loan there that would appear on your credit reports...should be safe.

[confuzed]

I have no loans anywhere, no credit cards, no nothing.

I made an appointment to see the NACA lawyer tomorrow. Spoke briefly with him by phone; he doesn't think they'll file a suit against me, but says I can come in for a consult for $75.00.

He used the term "bottom-feeders" too. ;)

[IHateCAs]

The biggest problem is, you don't have much of a claim against them since everything took place via phone. So I'd save the $75 fee for now.

[confuzed]

I alternate between absolute RAGE against these sleazeball terrorists, and fear that I'll have to deal with it over and over forever, now that it's come up.

The key seems to be finding out whether or not I ever DID have any debt on the card, and I can't find that out for ten days.

But even if I there was some balance fourteen years ago, there seems to be no way I could really make it right, as no money would ever go to original creditor, only to these scumsucking sharks. And if I don't give THEM anything, then they can sell me to someone else.

If I ever did owe, I might give them some amount of money in exchange for a Paid In Full letter - but I can't negotiate that myself because I've clearly shown that I'm susceptible to their methods so I would rather have an attorney do it.

And giving the sharks ANY money only perpetuates the whole deal for everyone else anyway; if it pays to intimidate, then why not do it? So ethically...

I feel like I've been sucked into the underworld. :(

Oh - I did close the bank account this morning after fixing all my auto payments, thanks for the recommendation.

[confuzed]

They must've discovered the check was stopped....just got calls on both home & cell, "This is Lance Matthews from the attorney's office, please call me at ........"

[bigjohnstud4200]

They must've discovered the check was stopped....just got calls on both home & cell, "This is Lance Matthews from the attorney's office, please call me at ........"

LMFAO. yeah, if you don't call them back, I bet they start with the "We're going to call the police for fraudulent checks" and so on." Let the answering machine get all the calls so you have them on record.

[rmuse00]

To the OP (Original Poster). I wished you would have done a search on Lawrence Hecker. I dealt with him on the phone, of course I have read up on the FDCPA and know how to deal with a CA pretty ok...I think. :lol: He has violated before. People....please do searches on this board. Usually these that violate do so over and over again. We've got to stop being the sucker. :cool: Sorry I did not see this sooner however, don't know that it would have helped much. :roll: He freaked out when I asked for validation. :?

[confuzed]

I did search, that's how I even found this forum! Of course I wish I would have searched BEFORE I gave him any information, but that's the price of shame - if I hadn't ever had financial trouble, if I'd never been in collections for anything, if I didn't FEEL like a deadbeat debtor - then I wouldn't have been suckered.

I wish he didn't have my cel number; I must've given it to him, though I don't remember doing it. I could've blubbered out anything - he probably knows about my sex life. (kidding - I couldn't care less!)

I hope my request for DV does scare him off. We'll see.

[rmuse00]

I reread your thread didn't mean to give you the ol' :ah:ah:ah: in regards to doing a search. I guess I was just reiterating for those out there that have just joined us and might at some point come to be in the exact situation, especially with people like this. Saw the title of your thread and I went a little blind with anger. So I had to reread your thread! :lol: He is an idiot! He's probably gonna look at your DV and say :roll: not this again! :lol:

Good luck and DO keep us posted! :)++