Help me out here, folks

[divemedic]

You all know the drama with my daughter. If you don't, read here. (http://www.debt-consolidation-credit-repair-service.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265276)

She failed enough classes in high school that she will not be a senior this year. She turns 18 in January, and will not graduate. She tells me she is getting married on her 18th birthday. I doubt she finishes high school.

When I try to discipline her, she tells me that it is HER life and none of my business.

This summer, she went to stay with my sister in a town 60 miles from here. I had hoped that she would find new friends and get away from the losers. Didn't work, the boys just drove to see her. I guess I underestimated the things a teen boy will do to get laid.

Now that summer is over, and it is time for her to go back to school, she tells me she does not want to come back. My sister is unwilling to assume legal responsibility for her, so my XDW wants her back, I am sure this is so she can avoid paying CS, and get me to pay CS to her again.

So, finally we get to my question:

1 Should I allow her to go?
2 How do I get the $1900 in CS I am owed?
3 I do not know if I can afford the $900 a month in CS I would have to pay.
4 Any other suggestions?

[zfire]

In TX you could give your CS case to the AG..and they would attempt to collect. But...it takes them forever to get the ball rolling, and then it's possible one might get just a small percentage of the arrears monthly. Does Florida do something like that?

You can counter claim on the support if you let your daughter go back with the X..........
You know, she owes you so she collects nothing til that is caught up.

As to letting the daughter go...Gosh Dive, that is a hard one. I think that is a decision only you can make.

That said........If you let her go, she will probably be back.........may take a year or three, but she will come back needing help. She's too old to slap in some sort of program, isn't she? I don't even know if there are programs for kids who know it all.

z

[confuzed]

I'm sorry to read of all the heartbreak, divemedic. In your court order, how long must you pay child support? If she's eighteen and not a student, does it stop?

[willingtocope]

Isn't the question of custody something the courts would have to decide? She's old enough to voice an opinion, I'm sure, but in Ohio at least, she couldn't just change residences without a court order.

If thats the case, it could probably get delayed long enough to get her to her 18th birthday. Not much you can do after that...

[divemedic]

My support order expires on her 18th Bday.

My XDW is claiming she is disabled and cannot work. She hurt her back while working as a cashier at Walmart. That is why she is claiming she can't pay her CS. I filed for a contempt order in June, but we are still waiting for a hearing.

If the wife tries to take her, I know I can stall until it is too late. Custody changes take a hearing. It is only 5 months. October 7th is the point where her arrears is equal to the CS I would pay from that point until she is 18. Unless the hearing is an emergency involving the welfare of the child, it takes at least 45 days to get a hearing. Even if XDW filed on Monday, that puts her at the end of Sept. One continuance, and we are there.

Once the CS sword is not hanging over her head, it is my belief that the XDW will lose interest.

[willingtocope]

I know its got to be disruptive in your current family, but, I guess I've vote for hanging on to the kid until the very end. Like you say, its only another 5 months. You're not gonna get the CS from the XDW, but, at least you'll know you tried to get the kid started in the right direction.

[Sultan]

OK my .02

Jan is not that far away, if it were me I'd do my best (I know it's hard as heck with finances and things being tight, our budget is down to a few bucks some months) though I'd do my best to keep the support issue as seperate as possible, it sounds like if your ex is in arrears that would be an offset to any monies you would have to pay.

It's possible your daughter is playing both ends of the stick and knows she can pit you and the ex against each other, hard to say it could be a bluff, (maybe she'd rather be with you but doesn't like to admit it because she can use this for power to manipulate the situation) its really hard to say anything because that is your flesh and blood and its one of those things where it makes us as parents kind of damned if we do or damned if we don't. (if you hold the line she thinks your too strict, if you cut some slack she takes advantage) Everyone might have some quick and easy answers but you know your situation better than anyone.

Hopefully your sister is a healthy person and not like my sister(s) who like to side in with the female right or wrong. It seems like your daughter needs some good people in her life right now to reaffirm to her how critical things are at this stage and that the choices she is making will affect her for the rest of her adult life.

I have a feeling the harder you try to hang on to control of your daughter the more she will resist, if you start to turn her loose (as far as letting it be her choice, but your going to love her and do your best to support her no matter where she goes) she'll only love and respect you more in return. (crazy thing but I know this is right and true of human nature)

Tough situation man, I know I made my nephew goto a counselor when he came to live with me after my brother left town and left him behind, he cried though some of those sessions and some healing took place, I was willing to go see the counselor too to set a good example and practice what I was preaching. I had many talks with him to let him know what I thought about what his friends motives were and to reinforce his value and esteem as the most important person and to try to love himself because he was so dang worth it.

We can never have enough skills or tools in our arsenal for the task (most important in the world - IMO) of bringing up our children.

[Nascar3]

I know its got to be disruptive in your current family, but, I guess I've vote for hanging on to the kid until the very end. Like you say, its only another 5 months. You're not gonna get the CS from the XDW, but, at least you'll know you tried to get the kid started in the right direction.


I'm going to agree with Willingtocope. Hang on to her. Doesn't sound like the XDW is much of a good influence. Do the best you can, it's all you can do. Hopefully she will see it and appreciate it years from now.

[CelticGirl]

I'm going to agree with Willingtocope. Hang on to her. Doesn't sound like the XDW is much of a good influence. Do the best you can, it's all you can do. Hopefully she will see it and appreciate it years from now.

I third that.

I am so, so sorry that you are (still) going though this.

I know it sounds trite to say 'I know it's hard' - because I'm sure I can't even begin to imagine how hard it is, but it's just too important.

She's young and being stupid and stubborn ( I have a feeling she comes by the stubborn part rightly...) and this IS going to catch up to her someday. Hopefully not before it's too late. I wish there was a way to know what started all this self-destructive behavior. Hopefully it will come out somewhere down the road.

Just please...don't write her off. It's so obvious how much you love her and how much this is hurting you. Please, please don't let it drive a permantent wall between your heart and her's. Someday - she is going to regret this and is going to need her Dad (she already does she just doesn't realize it). Please - when that time comes - let her come home to your heart. Show her there is a thing as unconditional love even if you don't like - even hate what she is doing or has done - that you will always love her.
You both need each other.

You are both in my thoughts and prayers.

:grouphug:

[Macwench]

It's hard with everything you've been through though - the easy thing to do would be to let her go to the ex - but that doesn't seem to be what is best for your DD. Yes - she's almost 18 but that doesn't automatically make her mature enough (she's already shown she isn't) to make this kind of decision. You need to make it for her. My advice (for what it's worth) is to hang on to her as tightly as you can. She needs you and your steady influence more than she knows and it will make such a difference when she's older to know that you didn't do what may have been easiest. You did what is best for her. It will be tough (especially on you) if she doesn't want to be there, but she need your strong, positive male influence.

In your heart of hearts you probably already know the right answer.

[newbie7069]

I've got a slightly different opinion. If you really feel that she won't end up graduating, have you thought about agreeing that she doesn't have to go back to school but she has to get her GED and get a job. At least that way, you know she'll at least get that while she is with you. Force her to pay you rent, agreeing to put it into savings for her until she is 18. That way she'll have a little money to get started when she decides to move out on her own. At her exact age I had already moved out and was living in Austin; I had already graduated though. Was I mature enough to be on my own? No way in hell! But my parents always allowed me to come home. I moved out 3 or 4 times before I finally settled down at around 20 or 21. In the mindset she is in, there is really nothing that you are going to be able to do that is going to change her. She is only going to learn it by making the mistakes and learning on her own. I know it sounds harsh, I am just saying that from my own experience.

[rmiller0410]

This very thing happened to me. Except the circumstances were slightly different. it was my son . He deceided he wanted to go live with his dad whom he hadn't seen since he was like 3 yo.I knew in Ohio we had to appear in court for change of custody.So I agreed to let him go for the summer then if he was happy there we would change custody. CS wasn't going to be an issue as I still had my daughter so we were going to drop CS.Anyway long story short his dad got a court date my son told the judge i want to live with my mom, she is the one who has took care of me all these years. Case dismissed. Sometimes you just have to let them go. My son is now 24 and he tells me that he is glad I let him make is own choice because it taught him that life isn't always greener on the other side.He said he did not realize how I struggled so many years as a single parent of four to provide them what they needed. My son is going to be a father soon and he tells me he hopes he can be half the dad that I was a mom.I tell him

[virtualrn]

I think everyone is in agreement the daughter should stay with Divemedic. With the exception of me....Send the DD packing where she wants to go. You aren't going to get back support and you won't pay support for five months-it is a wash. I was in a similar situation with my 19 y.o. except that there was no support coming in. I kicked my DD out after a 3 am visit from the police when she was 17....public drunkeness and lieing to me where she had been going. She was already flunking out of "independent study." Drugs, sex, and whatever else she could do to stick it to me. There is only so many personal violations you can take, Divemedic! Anyhoo, she moved to the ghetto with the best of slumlords, barely supporting herself with wages from Jamba juice. Begged to move back in me with last Semptember. Initially, I said no to her, you have violated me too often. I relented eventually. She obtained her ged and just finished her 3rd semester of jc with a 3.3 gpa and she is working. There is only so much a parent can do. Don't beat yourself up. My advice is tell the daughter, this is a hard road you are choosing-work smarter not harder!

[divemedic]

Accepting rent from her is not an option- as soon as you do, you have to evict her to throw her out. If she chooses to fight it, that could take months.

As far as her getting a GED- that thought HAS occurred to me.

I am leaning towards just letting her go. She DESPISES me. You can see it when she looks at me. She sees me as her enemy. She drinks, does drugs, has had AT LEAST 8 different sexual partners since she has come to live with me (20 months) including having sex for money. She has been arrested once, and brought home by the cops two other occasions. She has run away twice. Even now, she refuses to come home. I am going to have to go get her with the police when school starts.

I am just tired, and I realize that I cannot MAKE her take control of her life.

[saramorgan]

Sorry you are going through all this Dive :(

[HadEnough]

I am leaning towards just letting her go. She DESPISES me.

Well, I don't have any kids.

So FWIW, my observation's from being a 'rebel' when at that age as well ; Let her go.

You really don't have any choice anyway since she's myopically focused her angst on the only real authority figure in her life.

'The cruel world' should quickly teach her the difference between her percieved problems and the reality of the streets. It sure as hec did for me!

[willingtocope]

I could be mistaken, but I don't think you can legally just walk away. Until custody is switched over to you XDW, you're responsible for what your daughter does...right?

Does your daughter want to go back to XDW? If not, you don't have any choice but to go get her...

You might get around this by filing a police report...declaring her a runaway. If you let the cops know where to find her, would they put her in the system for awhile, or just return her to you?

[divemedic]

I previously offered to sign the papers so she could marry the boy she thinks is her "soul mate." That would legally emancipate her, the only way that is practically possible in Florida.

She presented it to him, and he refused. He said he wanted to wait. I tried telling her that this was evidence that he was lying about wanting to marry her on her 18th birthday because teen boys will say whatever it takes to get in girls' pants, but she called me a liar.

[CelticGirl]

I am leaning towards just letting her go. Oh Dive. I'm so, so sorry.:(
If you do - let me say again to please, let her know - or try to - that you are doing this BECAUSE you love her, and never completely close the door on her.

having sex for money. She has been arrested once, and brought home by the cops two other occasions. She has run away twice. Even now, she refuses to come home. I am going to have to go get her with the police when school starts.

Is the judge aware of all this??? Maybe she/he could threaten her - maybe try to scare a little fear into her. I have a feeling it wouldn't really stop her given her determination to self destruct, but it's worth a shot. Then - when/if she ends up in jail - at least she would have that to look back on and maybe start to see the consequences of her actions and that she WAS warned.

[Amerikaner83]

wow Dive - I'm sorry.

I wasn't exactly the best of sons when i was that age - took me moving out @ 18, not being able to pay the apartment, move, lose my stuff, then jail for a week and a half to finally figure out everything my parents told me was true. i could never learn for other peoples' mistakes - I had to learn from my own.

It took my dad driving from Seattle to Oregon to physically find me for me to realize this - they didn't even know i went to jail until i tearfully admitted everything I had done for the 2 years since i turned 18. I thought dad would want to wash his hands of me. But I was grateful as hell when he offered to get me out of Oregon and help me clean up my sh!t. I got a job, a second job, school, car, etc.

I'm now engaged and graduated from college - I know for a FACT I wouldn't be here where I am if it hadn't have been for my parents.

Dive - while she may despise you now, know that it is NOT YOU - it's the authority that you represent that she despises. She may learn like I learned - have to make her own mistakes. But if you are there for her when she needs you the most - that is what will matter. That is what's important. I'm sure she knows you love her care about her and so on - she always will, no matter what

[Sultan]

I am leaning towards just letting her go. She DESPISES me. You can see it when she looks at me. She sees me as her enemy.

Somewhere underneath it all she loves you dude, you sound hurt, I don't blame you, just try to see past the part of her that she's had modeled form your Ex, soon enough everything will come to fruition and she'll realize that most if not all you do is out of love and concern.

You seem upset toward her, it's most likely hurt & sadness under that emotion. - Same thing for her. Life's very short buddy.

[rella5]

Actually the one she despises the most is herself. And what you see in her eyes is the reflection of that. When she looks at you she sees herself through your eyes and she cannot face what she has become but she can't turn back from the path she has chosen. Is crack her drug of choice? She sounds like my niece. I think kids are like computers- their souls come to earth with some software already installed and we can't change it no matter what we do. It sounds like the only thing you can do now is let her go with the promise that while your love will always be unconditional, your assistance and contributions to her will have conditions and terms (yours not hers). I wish you strength and peace through this.

[virtualrn]

It is hard to make decisions based on board comments. You sound like you have tried every conceivable intervention to no avail. Realize that the only good parenting comes from those that really have no idea what they are talking about. Factor in that it is harder to be a kid these days and environmental factors outside your realm can upset the best of your intents. I spoke earlier of personal violations, and the hurt of such betrayals is not worth it. You gave her the tools. Take a deep breath, let her go, and realize her fate isn't for you to decide. Whatever is going to happen, is going to happen.

[divemedic]

What makes this so hard is the rest of my family. She is very good at deception, and very good at playing on people's emotions. She has my mother and sister convinced that she has "changed," and that I am being unfair.

They won't believe me when I tell them she is lying. She has told me one lie after the other. After suspecting I was being lied to, the only way I was able to CATCH her lying was that I installed a key logger on her computer. At one point, her and her boyfriend were exchanging emails, and they were planning for him to "use a bat to teach [me] a lesson"

So far, the only drug I have caught her at is pot. She called me yesterday and was in the middle of telling me that she doesn't want to come back, and that she doesn't like me, or like staying in my house. That activated my stubborn streak, and I told her she needs to be home before school starts.

[VaSwtness]

Dive,

I've skimmed through most of the replies but I've kept up with yours. I've had something similar with my oldest daughter. It was the hardest thing I did but I brought out the tough love. Your child by court order has to return to your address. I think I'd take the approach with your daughter in conversation as "I'm sorry you do like me or don't want to come home; however, the court says you have to until 18 but if you want to live with XDW then here is what you need to do. You need to come home and petition the court for emancipation so you can become a legal adult before the age of 18." This will also eliminate CS but your still entitled to your support owed. Now, courts may be slow but at least she may start thinking their is a solution. I bet 18 gets here before court. Unfortunately, once 18 there is nothing you can do. Stop fighting her. She will make her mistakes and I know it is not what you want but.... Now, the tough love is, "you say NO from here on out". Simple, this is what she wanted, and your an adult...sorry for your luck. I've said this many times to my daughter and just now in the last 6 months it's starting to sink in. I've helped occasionally, but not often. She'll be 23 in October so this has been a long 5 years. Just remember the more you fight her the more resistance you'll get from her. Reverse psychology.

Anyway, I wish you the best of luck. This is a hard road to walk as a parent.

[tarbaby]

Dive,

You need to come home and petition the court for emancipation so you can become a legal adult before the age of 18." This will also eliminate CS but your still entitled to your support owed. Now, courts may be slow but at least she may start thinking their is a solution. I bet 18 gets here before court. Unfortunately, once 18 there is nothing you can do.

Thats what I was thinking. You wont owe the DAX (dumb ass ex) anything. See if she drops her like a hot potato.

[divemedic]

I thought of that months ago. Emancipation is hard in Florida.

What you need to provide in the petition:

(1) A circuit court has jurisdiction to remove the disabilities of nonage of a minor age 16 or older residing in this state upon a petition filed by the minor's natural or legal guardian or, if there is none, by a guardian ad litem.

(2) The petition shall contain the following information:

(a) The name, address, residence, and date of birth of the minor.

(b) The name, address, and current location of each of the minor's parents, if known.

(c) The name, date of birth, custody, and location of any children born to the minor.

(d) A statement of the minor's character, habits, education, income, and mental capacity for business, and an explanation of how the needs of the minor with respect to food, shelter, clothing, medical care, and other necessities will be met.

(e) Whether the minor is a party to or the subject of a pending judicial proceeding in this state or any other jurisdiction, or the subject of a judicial order of any description issued in connection with such pending judicial proceeding.

(f) A statement of the reason why the court should remove the disabilities of nonage.
<snip>

(7) The court shall consider the petition and, if satisfied that the removal of the disabilities is in the minor's best interest, shall remove the disabilities of nonage; and shall authorize the minor to perform all acts that the minor could do if he or she were 18 years of age.

[Sultan]

After suspecting I was being lied to, the only way I was able to CATCH her lying was that I installed a key logger on her computer. At one point, her and her boyfriend were exchanging emails, and they were planning for him to "use a bat to teach [me] a lesson".

Whoa, I'd draw the line there, (This might be more of a serious problem that I thought.) I think you need to communicate that to your mother & sister if you haven't already. Let them know about the threats, drugs and other problems and how serious this is. (crazy talk from a punk or not, that's just BS) Threats or talk of violence are serious especially when there are drugs involved. - Everyone needs to be on the same page if your going to have a successful intervention with an out of control teen. One things for sure time is running out and this thing is coming to a head, she'll be of age in no time. I'd like to say more but its not my place.

She'll be 18 in January thats less than 6 months. Right around the corner.

[VaSwtness]

That's ok. It's the tactic to take with the child. Show her what she needs to do. I'm not saying it will all happen and even so I still believe she'd be 18 before court anyway. A control factor and a way to agreeably get her home and it may seem as if you are ON her side; not against. As the saying goes, "you catch more flies with honey than vinegar!" This way just maybe you could start breaking down those defenses since she'd be "an adult" per se. I'm trying to help you find that common ground you need to deal with her and keep XDW out of the picture as much as possible. Just something to think about.

Again, good luck and I'll keep you in my prayers.

[SecretAgentWoman]

I'm going to hug my teenagers, and count my blessings, when I get home.

You know, my mother lives with us now, and she acts as if they are the most horrible, undisciplined children when they leave a towel on the bathroom floor...but really, they are good kids, who call so I don't worry, have good friends, get decent grades, and don't go too far in the drugs/booze experimentaion thing (yes, they experimented, yes, we talked, yes, we worked through it).

Dive, when you throw in the white flag, just make sure you keep the back door "unlocked" metophorically - she needs you, whether or not she'll admit it to herself.

[divemedic]

Let me say this: If you even SUSPECT that your teen is doing things that are out of line, your eyes will be opened when you install this (http://www.spectorsoft.com/keylogger.asp?refer=1941) on their computer.

It logs emails, chats, every key stroke, everything.

It even takes a screen shot every few seconds (user selectable from 5 seconds- 60 seconds) that you can view movie-style later.

[elyse449]

Dive, (sorry, this got a bit long)

It sounds like you're getting a lot of GREAT, honest, insightful advice. I know what you're going through, to. You just feel them slipping through your fingers, like nothing you say or do matters...but what I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt is, it does. Maybe not NOW, but someday she'll look back and remember.

The one thing I had to force myself to accept is, technically-these kids aren't "mine." They aren't property, they're people with their own opinions, likes, dislikes, weakenesses, strengths, etc...the only thing that you want to be making clear to your dd at THIS point, is how much you love her and that if you didn't love her, you wouldn't give two turds what she did or didn't do. That you want good things for her...but sweetie, if SHE doesn't want those things for herself, you can't FORCE her to.

You can't force her to like herself, to strive for better options in life, to understand where you're coming from...where she's at emotionally, mentally and mature wise just isn't the place, yet.

I think you're on the right track with letting her go. And I do agree, let her know your love will ALWAYS remain, that you just know how tough life can be and all you wanted to do was help her avoid some of that...however, if this is truly what she feels she wants, than ok--(Although avoiding someone else's RULES doesn't seem worth it, but ok)

Reassure her that you love her no matter what, that you think she's a beautiful, smart, worthwhile girl and you have faith that she'll be OK...but if she isn't ok, if something should happen-you are her Dad and you'll always be there for her because that's how that is...But yes, she should understand that if she's ever going to be mature enough to ask for help, she'll be mature enough to accept the guidelines.

I found it especially disturbing that her b/f wasn't willing to marry her now. That smelled rotten to me. If they can wait until she's 18, than how come they can't wait until she's 22 and done with college or whatever??? Something vexes me on that subject.

Also, I do have a bit of experience with regard to leaving school. See, I dropped out of school myself. Let me tell you, I don't know of ONE person that EVER looks back on that choice and is PROUD of it. I don't know anyone who has dropped out of school and has said, "Yep, I'd do that all over again!" So, that may be something worth communicating w/ your dd on. If she's truly having a hard time in school, that can be helped-it truly can. I have regretted that ever since! I had a b/f at the time, to. He was a long term type. We'd been together 2 yrs and I quit caring about my own future. What a mistake. I didn't realize that at HIS age and HIS maturity level he didn't care for me the same...and even if he DID, I owed it to myself to put effort into myself, rather than just that relationnship.

What happened? Well-let's see...the guy ditched me for another girl at the urging of his parents because she was "in school." See, his parents didn't think much of his highschool drop out g/f and looking back, I don't blame them. (I won't go in to what happened to him, another post all together)

I went on with life and met someone else. Someone who was ALSO "lost." I had my baby girl when I was 5 days from turning 20. The guy I was with was messed up, no education, only part time job and he was a DRINKER...I wanted BETTER for my child. So, I dumped him and went back to school and got my GED.

You just realize that looking for love and acceptance from OTHERS is hollow. Finding it within is what lasts. As hokey as that sounds, it's true.

I regret leaving school, though. I regret not attending my junior/senior proms. I regret losing touch with myself...it lead to a lot of unnecessary loneliness and heartbreak.

The chances that any LONG term situation will last with this guy your dd is with, is minimal....working and getting an education? A life time of positive results!

I sure wish your dd could've gotten some counseling or something.. :(

Elyse

[rella5]

Dive, I get the impression that you are a man who believes strongly in the laws of the land and the laws of right and morality. Therefore you need to march on. As long as she is a legal minor, do the things you need to do to keep your conscience clean. Monitor her communications, make her obey the law while she is in your custody including having her arrested if necessary. Do the things that you know are right even if it makes her "hate" you now. You know in your heart that the only way you can face the future is to have the strength of what is right in the past, no matter who disagrees or how much it hurts.

[rmuse00]

Dive,
So sorry this has to be hard! :(

I do commend you for not giving up even though you probably have felt like it. Many mothers & fathers would have given up long ago. Sounds like you have done all you could to be the strong father figure you need to be to guide her. It's not for your lack of trying that is clear!

What do the courts say about a troubled teen? If she were to leave on her own and did not want to say with you do they place the kids in foster homes? :dunno: I mean what if you are afraid for your own safety based on the e-mails you saw? Can something be done about that? I don't think she would rather live in a juvenile detention then home with you. I mean if she were to commit assault, or worse. You think? Sorry Dive :grouphug: