Bronson & Migliaccio hauntings

[NightOwl1969]

You need to get a recorder and start recording these clowns and their conversations. If they threaten to take you to court with no intention to, they are in violation. If they threaten to garnish your wages before they have a judgment, they could be in violation. The message "investigating a civil matter" could be a violation, depending on the context. Taken by themselves, they may not be much, but you start putting a whole string of this threatening/misleading stuff together and you may find an attorney to take it. Nothing plays for a jury (or the threat of one) like a bunch of hateful conversations.

You don't say how much the debt is for, but typically they won't sue in anything but small claims for relatively small sums. I'm thinking since it's a payday loan, it's probably a relatively small sum. Anything under a grand will usually cost them more in attorney's fees than the debt is worth.

If they do sue, cross that bridge when you come to it. In the meantime, DV, build your paper trail, and don't expect too much too fast. You sent a letter on the 8th, don't expect a reply by the 16th. They'll drag it out as long as they can. If at any point they continue collections activity before providing verification (after receiving your dispute), they are in violation of the FDCPA. Record any phone calls/messages after they received the dispute. Keep all letters. Dispute with the credit bureaus (again, if you already have). Keep the pressure on them.

If you talk to them and are recording them, play dumb. Don't get all "I know the law, blah, blah, blah" on them. Act dumb. Ask them leading questions like "Can I go to jail for this?" "Is this a crime?" Let them abuse you, harass you, lie to you, break the law as much as possible....then sue their a** off.

These guys are all scum and prey off the ignorance of the average consumer. Let them THINK they have the upper hand, because the more intimidated they think you are, the more likely they are to violate.

[unusualsuspect]

Originally Posted by NightOwl1969

If you talk to them and are recording them, play dumb. Don't get all "I know the law, blah, blah, blah" on them. Act dumb. Ask them leading questions like "Can I go to jail for this?" "Is this a crime?" Let them abuse you, harass you, lie to you, break the law as much as possible....then sue their a** off.

These guys are all scum and prey off the ignorance of the average consumer. Let them THINK they have the upper hand, because the more intimidated they think you are, the more likely they are to violate.

Exactly.

As far as OP's question regarding their license to collect in AZ-- it does not appear that they are licensed in AZ at this time.

You can always check the licensee list here - http://www.azdfi.gov/Lists/CA_List.HTML

Go ahead and file a complaint with the AZ DFI. Usually that puts a stop pretty fast- especially given their MO.

[deep-n-debt]

Nightowl 1969 - thank you for additions to all of this. More great stuff! You mentioned that I didn't say what the dollar amount was.....to clarify, all of these posts have been about 2 seperate issues. B&M is trying to collect for $1600; the last notice I received from the OC the balance with interest was approximately $1400. The 2nd one claiming to be Jacobson & Assoc, is the payday loan and that original amount was $375, but at some point in his call, when he was talking over me, I thought I heard him say $1100 something.....

The only DV letter I have sent, so far, is to B&M. I did finally receive the green certified card back, and I have not heard a peep from them...yet. I will ask my ex-mother in-law again if she has heard anymore from them, and when, if she has. She never takes their call, she lets it go to VM if she doesn't recognize the # calling.

Since my conversation with Jacobson & Assoc, I have not heard from them again, but I had left that with requesting them to send me something in writing. I told him that I was not confirming or denying anything and until I have something in writing detailing this issue, I could not help him. Nothing has come in the mail yet. But when it does, a certified DV letter will go to them as well.

Unusual Suspect - you say J&A is Marval and associates. I am tempted to send them a DV letter, but what if we are wrong and its not them? The sample DV letter that I am following, says to reference their letter sent to me on such and such date....etc. All I had is a phone call. I don't have an OC to reference, an account #, nothing like that. Maybe I should just wait for something in the mail....yes? no?

Thanks again - your advice is so valuable to me! Keep it coming.

[unusualsuspect]

OK --

B&M -- It's not unheard of that CAs will add "fees" onto a balance when they attempt to get payment. Since you've sent a DV letter to B&M, they've got to cease collection efforts until they can get something to validate the debt. That validation needs to come from the original creditor-- not from anyone else.

Jacobson/Marval-- I found out it was Marval by the phone number in one of your previous posts. I searched that number and it seems to belong to Marval & Associates. Since you've asked for something in writing, they've either stopped until they can get something to you, or, they know that threats of jail aren't going to intimidate you. I'd wait and see if anything comes in the mail--- I highly doubt it. They're not going to break the law on paper- paper that can be used in court against them. Expect this to be passed onto someone else.

[deep-n-debt]

Just minutes ago, I received another call, which at this point I can only assume is J&A, as this same # has called me before identifying the name that called me from J&A from a different # (did that make sense?)...anyway... i have this called saved, as I do the previous J&A call...here is the call verbatim, which wasn't so easy, I had to listen to it multiple times to get every word exactly.

"This message is for (my first name). My name is (he says his full name). I am contacting you to inform you that you have a wage garnishment in place for 10/30/2009. You will be responsible for the additional balance of $668.22 plus court fees, plus attorney fee's. We do have an out of court settlement offer for you in the amount of $290.00 to close out this account. Its in your best interest that you do show some kind of physical intention to take care of this. Please contact me at 800-370-7706"

When I try to google this #, I cannot determine anything definitive on it, although it appears it may be a cell phone, not sure though. Google makes it appear it could be a cell, and his message had breaks in it, like when a cell phone cuts in and out. Granted he is calling my cell, but I don't think that was from my phone. If you are kicked in to voice mail you would think it would be clear on my end, but not his if he was on a cell in a bad area.

He is threatening Wage garnishment for this friday. I just spoke with my HR person and no such thing has hit my employer. He did not identify his company name, does not identify the original creditor, and I have not received anything remotely like this debt in writing.

Unusual suspect - can you use your magic powers on this phone #? 800-370-7706. If we can tie this to J&A or Marval, I will have the DV letter out faster than I will be able to read your reply.

Thank you

UPDATE: (almost 2 hours since I wrote the above stuff) Woohoo! I was just searching through all of the missed #'s on my cell and I googled one that never left a message, its 716-828-8986. The # ties DIRECTLY to Marval! NOW I will for sure send my DV LETTER. You don't need to research the # above afterall. I have the confirmation that I was looking for, to be sure that J&A was MARVAL. But thank you for your own PI work on this, that helped tremendously. You tied it J&A to Marval, I guess I just had to see it for myself to be sure

[GAMtgGuy]

Originally Posted by deep-n-debt

Just minutes ago, I received another call, which at this point I can only assume is J&A, as this same # has called me before identifying the name that called me from J&A from a different # (did that make sense?)...anyway... i have this called saved, as I do the previous J&A call...here is the call verbatim, which wasn't so easy, I had to listen to it multiple times to get every word exactly.

"This message is for (my first name). My name is (he says his full name). I am contacting you to inform you that you have a wage garnishment in place for 10/30/2009. You will be responsible for the additional balance of $668.22 plus court fees, plus attorney fee's. We do have an out of court settlement offer for you in the amount of $290.00 to close out this account. Its in your best interest that you do show some kind of physical intention to take care of this. Please contact me at 800-370-7706"

When I try to google this #, I cannot determine anything definitive on it, although it appears it may be a cell phone, not sure though. Google makes it appear it could be a cell, and his message had breaks in it, like when a cell phone cuts in and out. Granted he is calling my cell, but I don't think that was from my phone. If you are kicked in to voice mail you would think it would be clear on my end, but not his if he was on a cell in a bad area.

He is threatening Wage garnishment for this friday. I just spoke with my HR person and no such thing has hit my employer. He did not identify his company name, does not identify the original creditor, and I have not received anything remotely like this debt in writing.

Unusual suspect - can you use your magic powers on this phone #? 800-370-7706. If we can tie this to J&A or Marval, I will have the DV letter out faster than I will be able to read your reply.

Thank you

UPDATE: (almost 2 hours since I wrote the above stuff) Woohoo! I was just searching through all of the missed #'s on my cell and I googled one that never left a message, its 716-828-8986. The # ties DIRECTLY to Marval! NOW I will for sure send my DV LETTER. You don't need to research the # above afterall. I have the confirmation that I was looking for, to be sure that J&A was MARVAL. But thank you for your own PI work on this, that helped tremendously. You tied it J&A to Marval, I guess I just had to see it for myself to be sure

HI deep-n-debt,

I had to reply after reading your verbatim transcript. All I can say is to spend some time on the legal forum here, learn what you can, and seriously think about suing these idiots - Marval/J&A. You could have a field day with these guys.

This is as sleazy as they come.

[deep-n-debt]

Thanks GAMtgGuy - I will check that out for sure.

Does anyone know what to do, when a company appears to have their own collection agency? I joined this travel club a few years ago, and with some employment issues, couldn't keep up the payments. That just recently went to collection as well, it came in the mail yesterday, however unlike these other CA's, this one identifies itself as a CA of a different name than the travel club, BUT when referencing paying the debt, it says to make my check or money order out to (the travel club).....so this obviously isn't a JDB as these others, they are actually telling me to pay the OC. Suppose I have to pay this one huh? Darn, I was on a DV Letter high...lol.

Thanks in advance....

[unusualsuspect]

I'd treat it as any other CA... send a DV letter and see what happens.

[mdq1111]

Has anyone tried sending a cease and desist to Jacobson? They are unreal. They do an FDCPA violation every minute. How can they be Jacobson if they are Marval? I do have a fax from them with a Jacobson letter head.

Thanks for the additional info.

[unusualsuspect]

It's not uncommon for collection agencies to use different names.

Jacobson & Associates is probably a fictitious business name of Marval & Associates. Several of us have also confirmed they share the same phone numbers.

It is possible that they are in the process of changing names or merging with another company, but for the time being, they're the same company.

[deep-n-debt]

UPDATE to my DV letter sent to B&M:
Remember that I received the green certified card back from them on 10/16, with them signing it 10/13.

Today, 11/2 I received their response to my DV letter. Here is their letter dated 10/28, verbatim:

RE: Creditor: CACH LLC
Creditor acct #: ###########
Original Creditor: Care Credit
Original creditor acct: ########
Current Balance: $*,***.**

Dear (my name)
This office has been retained by CACH, LLC to collect the balance shown above. CACH LLC purchased your obligation from care credit. Accordingly, we are authorized to collect the balance due from you as set forth above. Please note that documents substantiating the creditors claim have been ordered, and will be provided to you.

Very truly yours

(his name), Esq.
For the Firm

This communication is from a debt collector and is an attempt to collect a debt. Any information obtained will be used for that purpose.(end of their letter)

Ok, so basically CACH LLC is the CA for Care Credit. This attorney's office has been "retained' to collect the debt I owe care credit. The attorney's office admits that their client has CACH LLC, "purchased the obligation". Which still does not validate to me that I owe cach LLC, nor this attorney's office.

Note that they have had my letter since 10/13, and didn't prepare and send this letter until 10/28. Are you going to tell me that they couldn't gather the "documents substantiating the creditors claim" in 2 weeks time??? They had 2 weeks to get that documentation and could have included the documentation in their letter to validate my debt.

Also, I doubt whatever substantiating documentation they get from the original creditor will also verify and document that they are LICENSED TO DO BUSINESS IN ARIZONA....Which they are NOT! I think we have determined that CACH does not appear to be licensed in AZ, and we definately know that B&M is not licensed to practice law in AZ.....What gives?

So should I wait for the substantiating documents or send another letter reminding them that they have to fulfill all of the requirements in my DV letter to them, or just simply do nothing at all....for now??


Follow up about Marval & Assoc (aka Jacobson & Assoc): On 10/30 nothing was garnished from my pay (imagine that), on 10/30 I sent them a DV letter certified mail. Now, I have the phone # that I tied directly to Marval calling me and leaving me messages referring to themselves as Jacobson and Assoc. This is the one that was for a payday loan. The woman leaving the message threatens she is going to call my employer and advise them that I used their IP address for the transaction (I guess because I did it on line), and also threatening to file check fraud charges, and mentioning something about my bank. Well, I no longer bank at the same bank, and I am no longer at the same employer as I was when I did this. So that will be a dead end, or at least a detour for them. By then, they will have received my DV letter.

[unusualsuspect]

Originally Posted by deep-n-debt

RE: Creditor: CACH LLC
Creditor acct #: ###########
Original Creditor: Care Credit
Original creditor acct: ########
Current Balance: $*,***.**

Dear (my name)
This office has been retained by CACH, LLC to collect the balance shown above. CACH LLC purchased your obligation from care credit. Accordingly, we are authorized to collect the balance due from you as set forth above. Please note that documents substantiating the creditors claim have been ordered, and will be provided to you.

Very truly yours

(his name), Esq.
For the Firm

This communication is from a debt collector and is an attempt to collect a debt. Any information obtained will be used for that purpose.(end of their letter)

Ok, so basically CACH LLC is the CA for Care Credit. This attorney's office has been "retained' to collect the debt I owe care credit. The attorney's office admits that their client has CACH LLC, "purchased the obligation". Which still does not validate to me that I owe cach LLC, nor this attorney's office.

Note that they have had my letter since 10/13, and didn't prepare and send this letter until 10/28. Are you going to tell me that they couldn't gather the "documents substantiating the creditors claim" in 2 weeks time??? They had 2 weeks to get that documentation and could have included the documentation in their letter to validate my debt.

This is a stall tactic. Neither the law office or the client has anything to back this, so they're trying to buy time.

Originally Posted by deep-n-debt

Also, I doubt whatever substantiating documentation they get from the original creditor will also verify and document that they are LICENSED TO DO BUSINESS IN ARIZONA....Which they are NOT! I think we have determined that CACH does not appear to be licensed in AZ, and we definately know that B&M is not licensed to practice law in AZ.....What gives?

Attorneys are exempt from having a collections license in AZ. However, unauthorized practice of law comes into play-- think complaint to the AZ State Bar.

Originally Posted by deep-n-debt

So should I wait for the substantiating documents or send another letter reminding them that they have to fulfill all of the requirements in my DV letter to them, or just simply do nothing at all....for now??

How long did you give them to validate? I only give CAs 15 days to validate -- after that, I let them know they failed to validate and to C&D. Only 1 agency was stupid enough to violate and they paid.

Originally Posted by deep-n-debt

Follow up about Marval & Assoc (aka Jacobson & Assoc): On 10/30 nothing was garnished from my pay (imagine that), on 10/30 I sent them a DV letter certified mail. Now, I have the phone # that I tied directly to Marval calling me and leaving me messages referring to themselves as Jacobson and Assoc. This is the one that was for a payday loan. The woman leaving the message threatens she is going to call my employer and advise them that I used their IP address for the transaction (I guess because I did it on line), and also threatening to file check fraud charges, and mentioning something about my bank. Well, I no longer bank at the same bank, and I am no longer at the same employer as I was when I did this. So that will be a dead end, or at least a detour for them. By then, they will have received my DV letter.

Marval/Jacobson are notorious violators of the FDCPA. The language on their website shows it-- it has phrases like "it's up to you if we prosecute" and even tries to pass of TIL as a criminal law to be used against debtors. If they've taken all the actions you describe then you've got at least 3 violations of the FDCPA. They are definitely full of s**t and need to be sued ASAP.

[deep-n-debt]

All of my DV letters that I have sent were taken from the form letter on this site. The sample shows 30 days, so that is what I used. I think that is fair enough, as I am asking them for 30 days to allow me time to investigate anything they come up with to 'validate' my debt....I know, I know, why am I using the word FAIR, right? Silly me!

Yes, I am saving all voice messages, which I now realize is WHY so many CA's just call and hang up if they don't get you, because they know they may be recorded. Well I have a few from all of the above companies, so if I need to I should be able to rock and roll with the best of them in court.

I will for sure be filing a complaint with the AZ State Bar. Is their a sample letter on here for that as well? I wouldn't know where to begin.

Thanks "US"

[unusualsuspect]

To make a complaint with the AZ Bar go here http://www.azbar.org.

I don't have a sample letter, but they may have a form...

[deep-n-debt]

I just researched filing a complaint on the link you provided for the AZ State Bar, and learned this:

(Cut and pasted from the site)
The State Bar does not investigate complaints against lawyers who are not licensed in Arizona unless they are practicing law in Arizona. Complaints usually must be filed in the state where the lawyer is admitted.

So in your opinion, is it considered "practicing law" by sending me the letter they did?

So if anyone, anywhere wanted to sue someone, they must first be sure that they are hiring an attorney that is licensed in the state where that person resides? So for example, lets say I want to sue someone, I am in AZ, but the other person lives in Montana....I would need to find a lawyer that is licensed or admitted in Montana right?

[unusualsuspect]

This is what I have been told by the AZ Bar...

"The out of state attorney is attempting to use their "influence" as attorneys to induce and to enforce payment on a contract... you happen to be in AZ... we think this could be construed as practice of law."

This happened to me after attorneys from PA attempted to collect a debt from me... I filed complaint for unlicensed collections, the complaint was forwarded to the AZ Bar. This was the meat of the letter I received back from the AZ Bar. Since I complained, there have not been any further efforts.

[deep-n-debt]

Update to sending a DV letter to Marval & assoc (aka Jacobson & Assoc) and the address shown on their website - I sent my DV letter certified with return receipt, on 10/30....since then I have been tracking it on USPS.com

(copy and pasted from usps.com)
Detailed Results:

Notice Left, November 03, 2009, 9:36 am, GETZVILLE, NY 14068
Arrival at Unit, November 03, 2009, 9:35 am, GETZVILLE, NY 14068
Acceptance, October 30, 2009, 3:30 pm, MESA, AZ 85206


So, guess who doesn't ever claim their mail? What do you make of this? Its not like they are checking their mail and just ignoring it, they don't appear to be checking it at all, as the USPS is not even leaving a second notice (that I can tell anyway). If they had picked up their other mail and just left the notice unclaimed, I would think that the post office would have returned my letter by now, no? Remember, these are the guys that had a PO Box address.

I suppose I will be getting this DV letter back unclaimed, then what? Also, I had another call today from the same person that I mention in my 10/26 post. The post where I quote the voice mail left from Jacobson and Assoc, this time, its the same guy, but now he is with "the garnishment dept with the offices of EMG & associates". - Oh brother! He never identifies he is with J&A, although its the same exact phone # and person that called before from J&A. I wrote this voice mail down as well, ver batim, here it is:

"This message is for (my name). This is (his name), and I am calling you from the garnishment dept w/ the offices of EMG & Assoc. I am calling to notify you that a company called (OC) is now preparing for the garnishment of your wages for the total balance plus all court fees and atty fee's with a court order to (inaudible) (but it sounds like "dismiss"). With a case # of _________. It is in your best interest to contact me immediately at 800-370-7706."

So what about the 'Case #" he mentions? Is that suppose to be a court case #? Why have I not received anything in the mail yet? Also, this is the same company that I called back that one time, wasn't the same guy as these 2 calls though. This was the call where I remained very calm, told him I was not confirming or denying anything and just calmly, simply asked him to send something in writing, yada yada yada. He said there would be no time for anything to come in the mail as I would be hearing from the court first......Ya RIGHT! THAT didn't happen!

What a mess these people are! And I thought I was a mess, HA!

[unusualsuspect]

Fax it to Marval... 716-923-7409.

That will probably light a fire under them... I'd send them something about masquerading as other companies in an attempt to deceive and misrepresenting the status of a debt - which are both a violation of the FDCPA.

File a complaint w/ the AZ DFI for unlicensed debt collection also. This could result in a civil money penalty against them.

///

Found out Marval & Associates, LLC is incorporated in Delaware and operating w/o registering and paying NY State taxes (some leverage there- inform NY Dept of Revenue and NY Sec of State)... their registered agent in Delaware is:

BUSINESS FILINGS INCORPORATED
108 WEST 13TH STREET
WILMINGTON, DE 19801

You do have the option of sending the registered agent CMRR correspondence as well, as many courts will consider it "received" by the business.

///

Let's recap the violations WRT Marval/Jacobson/EMG:

3x Threat of wage garnishment w/o judgment;

2x Misrepresenting the name of the collection agency;

3x Misrepresenting that the debt is in court;

3x making robo-calls;


Total of 11 violation for which I would file 11 separate lawsuits.

///

EMG Associates is a telecom consultant in Denver, CO... I'd consider giving them a call too - just to let EMG know what's going on.

[willingtocope]

Originally Posted by deep-n-debt

....This office has been retained by CACH, LLC to collect the balance shown above. CACH LLC purchased your obligation from care credit.......

Ok, so basically CACH LLC is the CA for Care Credit. This attorney's office has been "retained' to collect the debt I owe care credit. The attorney's office admits that their client has CACH LLC, "purchased the obligation". Which still does not validate to me that I owe cach LLC, nor this attorney's office.

Just to be sure you know what you're fighting. CACH LLC is NOT the CA for Care Credit. CACH LLC is a junk debt buyer. They bought the debt. CAs don't buy debts...JDBs buy debts. The lawyer is a CA collecting for CACH.

I point this out because you deal with JDBs differently than with OCs. If they should sue you, be certain to dispute any "acccount stated" affadavits...and make them prove chain of custody.

unusualsuspect is right that they're stalling. JDBs seldom get enough information when they buy the debt to stand up in a court of law, if you choose to confront them.

[deep-n-debt]

Unusualsuspect: You amaze me with what you come up with! I'm going for it. I am going to type up their phone messages that I have quoted here a couple of times, into a transcript, in case I need to point those out later....in court. Also, what is CMRR?

Willingtocope:
"The lawyer is a CA collecting for CACH".

So Bronson & Migliaccio is the Collection agency for the Junk debt buyer?? Well if the JDB barely has a leg to stand on then B&M is even further removed.

oh boy....

This gets so convoluted sometimes, that it can really be confusing at times. I'm still new at all of this, but learning lots as I go.